tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post675214110968348941..comments2023-12-16T16:50:25.810-08:00Comments on The Heart of the Matter: Mali and the Memory HoleBarry Eislerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17785333622697500192noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-28454217301254360992013-02-17T19:05:46.183-08:002013-02-17T19:05:46.183-08:00I think you are going to start seeing a trend here...I think you are going to start seeing a trend here in the west where it's actually <i>cool</i> to not <b>think</b> any more. I mean who want's to spend time thinking when you can just google search an answer and use that as justification for your own thought.Michael Luckenbillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03838937889443120814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-3477439858972513812013-02-03T22:44:23.645-08:002013-02-03T22:44:23.645-08:00This memory loss is not, sadly, limited to The Eco...This memory loss is not, sadly, limited to <i>The Economist</i>. How many times have you heard, among other justifications for the U.S. and allied forces' presence in Afghanistan, the improvement of life of women there? And only once have I heard mentioned on C-SPAN (not the most watched channel, unfortunately) that there was time when Afghani women went to schools and colleges, worked as doctors and teachers . . . Would you guess when was that?saumacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770671656961046673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-34650106252783721032013-02-03T22:43:40.092-08:002013-02-03T22:43:40.092-08:00I'm sorry if I'm butting in, and I actuall...I'm sorry if I'm butting in, and I actually used to be rocket scientist, but that STILL doesn't make me much of an expert in aerospace, just little parts of it (thanks for the laugh). <br /><br />Anyway, this is a thumbnail sketch of Authoritarians that might come in handy. This is based on Altemeyer's (U of Manitoba) findings. These are characteristics that he has found are typical, and he has about three decades of research and data behind it:<br /><br />1. Poor logic and reasoning skills<br />2. Poor integration of ideas and beliefs (beliefs come from different sources but don't fit together)<br />3. Double standards (heavy use of rationalization to justify conflicting opinions)<br />4. Hypocritical (want standards for themselves and their beliefs that are different from "others")<br />5. Poor self-awareness (tendency to overestimate own abilities and strengths)<br />6. Ethnocentric (the belief of "in" groups and "out" groups based on their personal belief system)<br />7. Dogmatic - unjustified certainty, opinions not able to be backed up with facts but they don't care<br /><br />Altemeyer has done work on authoritarian followers as well, typically Tea Partiers, but you can find them in blue as well:<br /><br />1. Authoritarian Submission<br />2. Fear<br />3. Self-righteousness<br />4. Hostility<br />5. Lack of Critical Thinking<br />6. "Our Biggest Problem Is..." (hyperbole)<br />7. Compartmentalized Thinking<br />8. Double-Standards<br />9. Empowerment in Groups<br />10. Dogmatism<br />11. Ethnocentrism<br />12. Prejudice<br /><br />http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/RaisedbyWolveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805980784482514527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-87178860519310535952013-02-03T16:51:46.583-08:002013-02-03T16:51:46.583-08:00For whatever reason, you're cherry picking fro...For whatever reason, you're cherry picking from Panetta, who also said torture wasn't needed.<br /><br />http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre9120b7-us-usa-binladin-panetta/<br /><br />In fact, citing Panetta without more is itself cherrypicking. Other officals, such as John McCain, have claimed torture was useless.<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bin-ladens-death-and-the-debate-over-torture/2011/05/11/AFd1mdsG_story.html<br /><br />Indeed, all the available evidence indicates torture was much worse than useless.<br /><br />http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/02/03/the-torture-apologists-ignore-the-4000-americans-they-killed/<br /><br />It seems a classified Senate Intelligence Committee report also concludes the torture program was ineffective and a terrible mistake.<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/cia-torture-report_n_2295083.html<br /><br />I'm not sure of what relevance is your assertion that you have very good friends who are interrogators. I have a good friend who is a NASA rocket scientist. Sadly our friendship has done little to help me understand jet propulsion. I also have a friend who's a top heart surgeon. In spite of our friendship, I remain inexpert on cardiology.<br /><br />Every expert interrogator I'm acquainted with has denounced torture.<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/11/opinion/11alexander-1.html?_r=0<br /><br />http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1893679,00.html<br /><br />There are many, many others. Maybe you're just friends with the wrong people? Or, for whatever reason, willing to listen only to certain people?<br /><br />At least as interesting as your eagerness to find a way to hang your beliefs on Panetta's vague claim is your reflexive attempt to discuss only whether torture "works" and your failure to acknowledge that it's illegal.<br /><br />In my years of blogging, the two key hallmarks of an authoritarian mindset I've noticed are these: (i) extreme credulousness about government claims; and (ii) an insistence on discussing whether torture "works" or "can work" coupled with a refusal to consider what it means that in America -- theoretically a nation of laws, where as Thomas Paine put it "The law is king" -- torture is illegal.<br /><br />I'm not sure if authoritarians say the things they do because they're un-self-aware, or if they just can't help it. Possibly it's both.Barry Eislerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17785333622697500192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-32758436188551278192013-02-03T12:01:47.351-08:002013-02-03T12:01:47.351-08:00whoops - - meant to put that comment under the &qu...whoops - - meant to put that comment under the "David Ignatius, Civics Expert" post<br /><br />sorry about that....Oblivious to oblivionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813667715718784531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22165230.post-8420753036640406042013-02-03T11:47:53.369-08:002013-02-03T11:47:53.369-08:00Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that in...Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta admitted that information gleaned from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him. <br /><br />http://youtu.be/mXyufICYrW8<br /><br />Like Penatta said - "...in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used."<br /><br />That being said, you of all people should know that solid Intel is produced from numerous sources, to create the puzzle pieces that, in turn, create the picture. I am not a proponent of torture, but I have a few very good friends who worked as interrogators at GITMO and even at "little" GITMO in Illinois (BOP). Enhanced interrogations work, they are valuable tools. Are they stand alone sources? Of course not - just as you would not give much credence to a walk-in at the consulate, or one days worth of imagery, or a burst of SIGINT - but putting them all together can create a picture, collaborated information that means something. But then - we've had this discussion before, haven't we? <br />Oblivious to oblivionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813667715718784531noreply@blogger.com